2:5). You can return Home, go to the index of commentaries, or go to my categorized index of artices. The entirety of his focus in condemning Nero concentrates on the preaching of Peter and Paul at Rome and the effects of their ideas in the city. Do you even know who Danaids and Dircae are? Paul, according to Acts, was in trouble not for being a Christian but for being a disturber of the peace. ", Pseudo-Hyginus, Fabulae 7 (trans. In the Metamorphoses, [1] Ovid refers to them as the Belides after their grandfather Belus. This made the Christians infamous throughout Rome where they hadnt been known of before. ", "Thanks much for this book review. He was accused of inflicting horrible martyrdoms on the Christians, and thus the legend in its latest form reached the Chronicle of Sulpicius. Guided by the gods and not intending to cause a war between them, he decided to give his kingdom to his brother and leave the country in search for another life. ISBN 1-905048-0-68. Presuming this much to be true, one might then further speculate about what was happening to the women concerned. These were the measures devised by human planning [i.e. Both Tacitus and Suetonius actually refer to Chrestiani, not Christiani a detail indicating that this was the name by which they were commonly known in the early second century. I shall not attempt to suggest why Jews or Christians might have thought badly of this imperial Apollo, especially as in currently predominant fashion the former could never have done wrong and the latter can never do right; and trust also that this doesnt provoke a tedious academic Armageddon over the real identity of 666. Wherefore let us give up vain and fruitless cares, and approach to the glorious and venerable rule of our holy calling. He offers the suggestion that Chrestus might be one of the freedmen advisers to the emperor Claudius, using as analogy the anti-semitic Helicon, counselor to Gaius Caligula. Dirke was probably the same as the nymphe Derketis. Five Reasons Why Mythicism is Disappointing, Where Morality Comes From a Rawlsian view, As for Near Death Experiences, I ask myself what is more likely: that a person really did in some sense, There are tonnes of things in the ot that draw from ancient near East beliefs, further Myth made fact a, Dear Austendw, Darshans essay is fascinating, and shows in my opinion how much Leviticus sacrificial and purity laws are at, Hi Neil As you may remember, I have not in the past been a fan of Russell Gmirkins theory that, I wish there was an edit button: These bittersweet messages seem, to me, to be more of a sigh of, The problem of course is that the serpents advice is perfectly reasonable and indeed wise. And it will not do to save the Christian hypothesis by postulating Suetonius ignorance. 1:13). us with a most excellent example. It reflects well on you. Clement, writing for the church of Rome, gives a humble beginning to his discussion on repentance. It is very unlikely that in 50s and 50sC.E. To get rid of the rumour, Nero found and provided the defendants, and he afflicted with the most refined punishments those persons whom, hated for their shameful acts, the common people were accustomed to call Chrestiani. 1. ", "For an excellent example of generally high-quality scholarship by someone who isnt a biblical studies professor, see Neil Godfreys work posted on the website vridar.org. Good job. Even given that the surviving part of the Histories under consideration was setting up the subsequent war and was a set-apart programmatic ethnography of the Jews in Judaea, two things are striking. 6:14). No names; no date; no place. https://www.rebuildingthefoundations.org/faith-and-works-story.html. 1.800.803.0118info@crossroadsinitiative.com. The historian certainly knew the differencebetween governors who were praefecti and those who were procuratores, and elsewhere he notes the distinction. Then the author of the letters of Seneca to Paul enlarged the legend in its primitive form, brought it into agreement with the ideas of this time, and gave it a political turn. That those accused of starting the fire that destroyed a large segment of Rome were set alight as human torches is an example of this practice. 6:2 By reason of jealousy women being persecuted, after that they had suffered cruel and unholy insults as Danaids and Dircae, safely reached the goal in the race of faith, and received a noble reward, feeble though they were in body. Again, there is no connection with Nero or with the Fire. He and Tacitus were junior senators in the time of Domitian when the fire was still being commemorated on public boundary markers. Further, Tacituss friend Pliny also described Christians in the same terms (the same words), seeing them as a plague spreading throughout the countryside of his province. Doris Lessing, I like the probability of the impossible." Danaus didn't want that his beautiful and prosperous Argos suffer because of a war. The two brothers had regular rivalries over their kingdoms and where trying one to get the other's land. In November, he took the first steps in composing the Community's own draft programme. to express appreciation for your detailed interaction with what Ive written!". Danaus' brother Aegyptus had fifty children as well; in his case, all of them were male. Musings on biblical studies, politics, religion, ethics, human nature, tidbits from science. However, Aphrodite, the goddess of love, intervened and saved her from punishment. As always, grace and peace to all those who love our Lord Jesus, the Christ, in truth. Thats the start. As Slingerland points out, more fully than any predecessor, the name appears with reasonable frequency in the epigraphic evidence, encompassing persons of freedman or free born status, some of lowly origin, some of relatively prominent station. . return to rescue his nation/people &c. This persists even in the bizarre sci-fi cult-fiction of the cryogenic Adolf in Antarctica. When her time was approaching, by the will of Jove [Zeus] she escaped from her chains to Mount Cithaeron, and when birth was imminent and she dsought for a place to bear her child, pain compelled her to give birth at the very crossroads. And to those who were dying mockeries were added. The Greek text in 6.2 is not without its complications, but it is entirely possible that the reference to the Danaids, alluding to how the daughters of Danas were given as prizes to the winners of a race, may be an indication of how some Christian women endured public rape before their executions. Now turn to the Book of Revelation, and we find that the Nero-like figure who is coming to destroy and kill on a cosmic scale is none other than Christ. lol) MY VIEWPOINT ON RACISM IS, Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. They would be released from this punishment, only if the basin was full of water. Not available publicly on our website or anywhere else exclusively for our confirmed subscribers! ", "Neil, Youve done a clean job in your posting on Jesus the Healer. 57 (trans. 51:16-17; Ezek. Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars [of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death. Shaws points here are significant. Its worth comparing in detail with the alternative arguments that the entire passage is a later forgery. Its an interesting hypothesis. . The Neronian persecution first appears full-blown in Sulpicius Severus, a Christian historian writing around 400 CE. For Aegyptus, these fifty marriages appeared as an easy route to acquire the properties of Danaus. 2:12). Grace and repentance go hand in hand. was embraced by Jupiter [Zeus]. But then when explaining whom Nero scapegoatedTacitusenters the realm of anachronism. And Dohertys point about the failure to reference Tacituss passage until very late, too Id like to assess it carefully against the alternative proposed by Shaw. . . The writer concludes: Thereafter the brethren kept together with one accord, rejoicing and exulting in the Lord. No Tacitean horror spectacle there. The originator of this name, Christus [Chrestus? Shaw, a classicist, demonstrates a critical approachthat is all too seldom encountered among ancient historians and theologians who refuse to face the questionable quality of their primarysources. I have just sent this letter to the New York Review of books. ", "Ive even been cited by atheists with approval (which I really dont know how to take, so thanks, I think, but Im not sure,Vrider(even though I feel like I need to take a shower now)). There are intelligent, thoughtful comments and commenters regularly offering productive discussion. Names with () symbol means corrupted entries but annotations from various editors were provided to rationalize their possible names. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. Covered with the hides of wild animals they perished by being torn to pieces by dogs or, fixed to stakes (or, crosses) they were set afire in the darkening evening as a form of night lighting. 3 (trans. Chapter 6: Envy (Continued) This chapter just gives more examples of martyrdom and persecution and points out the basis of persecution is envy. Those who have expressed even modest scepticism about the historicity of the one explicit passage in the historian Tacitus that attests to the executions have been voces clamantium in deserto. certain womenwho were spectacularly executed, dressed up as Danaids and Dircae. Rouse) (Greek epic C5th A.D.) . It is worth noting that Tacitus Annals 15 derives from a single manuscript, found in the derives from a single manuscript found in a monastery at Monte Cassino in the 13 or 14th century, that also found its way into the hands of Poggio Bracciolini. The intelligent Aegyptus wanted to get his sons married to the Danaides. It is a great reminder for us today that if we are not repenting, we are not going to be among his beloved. Slingerland reaches a proper and salutary conclusion: the burden of proof rests with those who wish to identify Chrestus with Christ, not those who distinguish them (pp 169-217). 151168. Learn how your comment data is processed. Dirke was originally the wife of King Lykos (Lycus) of Thebes who, as punishment for the mistreatment of her niece Antiope, was tied to a wild bull and torn limb from limb. The first is the apocalyptic idea, which saw in Nero the Antichrist, the embodiment of all evil, the terrible adversary of the Messiah and his followers. Grant) (Roman mythographer C2nd A.D.) : document.getElementById( "ak_js_3" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. They had been denounced as Christians by their jealous husbands. Jim Evans, Strasser hoped to replace the Programme of 1920. This may be a new way of thinking for a lot of you. And this evidence, focusing its special emphasis on the Christians and the execution of their leader under Pontius Pilatus in the reign of Tiberius, appears to have come to his attention after he wrote the Histories. And the way Suetonius adds a description of these Christians that was shared by his second century contemporaries it appears as if the historian is introducing the term Christian to enable his readers to link a religion they knew about in their day with an earlier group who were previously unknown by that name. ", "I have found your website really valuable as an interpretive filter for Biblical scholarship, especially the origins of Christianity and historicity of Jesus issue. The book is set and revised in Rome, but was not written there, and dates from the mid-2nd century. Moreover, Shaw ignores the effect of certain writings by Christians later than Tacitus who not only show ignorance, they present a picture which has to rule out any Neronian pogrom. (The latter is a phenomenon which Tertullian is one of the earliest to focus on, yet without appealing to any Great Fire controversy. [Many ingenious conjectures might be cited; but see Jacobson's valuable note, Patres Apostol., . the name was corrupted according to Mauricius Schmidt in his annotations in Hyginus. He then returns to the events of Neros time. Recall Plinys second century letter to the emperor Trajan confessing that he had little idea on how to judge the Christians who were being brought before him. I would also like to point out one serious flaw in Shaws argument, relating to his desire to keep the Tacitean passage as essentially authentic, but constituting a misinterpretation by Tacitus time about a Neronian event. never happened. hero concept in European and Jewish mythology, and his (apocalyptic?) For example, when Tacitus says that there arose a distaste towards Nero for his executions because they were perceived to be a concession to the emperors bestiality and not a contribution to the. To get rid of the rumour, Nero found and provided the defendants, and he afflicted with the most refined punishments those persons whom, hated for their shameful acts, Christians were afflicted with punishments, a type of men of a new and evil, What seems to have happened under Claudius and then again under Nero is the temporary banishment of some Jewish sectarians from the city of Rome, but not, in any event, persons who would logically have been labelled at the time as a new and evil, At the time, and indeed up to the decades after 100 C.E., among Roman writers, including Tacitus, it was the Jews rather than the Christians whose beliefs and practices were being labelled a. . Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Contents 1 Family 2 Mythology 3 In Roman culture 4 Notes 5 References The absence is doubly striking since it was precisely a fire at Nicomedia (two of them, in fact) that caused Galerius and Diocletian to turn on the Christians in the Great Persecution of 303 C.E. .The Sybilline Oracles believed the legend that Nerowas a Once and Future Kinga villain in the West but a hero in the Eastwho would one day return at the head of the Parthian armies to destroy the Roman Empire. It is most likely that Tacitus and Pliny exchanged information on these Christians who, as Pliny records, appeared to bebecoming a noticeable social nuisance. Even in the New Testament, we are told that at the judgment those who patiently to do good will be rewarded in eternal life (Rom. Its always gratifying when a reader zeroes in on exactly those aspects I thought were most interesting and most central to my argument. Not just in reference to a Tacitus account of such an event, but in any discussion of the tradition of martyrdom in their own history, something which Christian writers were continually fixated upon, from Clement to Tertullian to Eusebius. In the most common version of the myth, all but one of them killed their husbands on their wedding night, and are condemned to spend eternity carrying water in a sieve or perforated device. | Sitemap |. The name of Christian was not applied so early as the identifier of this Jewish sect. The story of Danaides begins with the rivalry between the twin sons of Belus, the king of Egypt. These include: The Daughters of Danaus is also the title of an 1894 novel by Mona Caird, also dealing with imposed marriage although, in this case, it is a single marriage instead of 50, and in 19th-century Great Britain. Evidently two developments had taken place prior to his writing the Annales: These developments were arbitrary, matters of choice, and not inevitable. Mair) (Greek poet C3rd B.C.) The myth says that, when they died, they Danaides were forced to a torment for eternity. At the time, the lethal superstitio was repressed, but it burst out again not only throughout Judaea, the origin of this evil (sickness), but through the City (of Rome) to which everything that is savage and shameful flows from all directions and is actually celebrated. By informal exchanges, in the course of their many known personal communications. Owing to envy, Paul also obtained the reward of patient endurance, after being seven times thrown into captivity, compelled to flee, and stoned. . The myth of Danaides is the story of fifty women who commit a horrible wrongdoing: guided by their father, they all kill their husbands on their wedding night! cf. Lynceus, the only survivor of the fifty sons of Aegyptus, later killed Danaus to revenge for his brothers. Prof. Shaws case undermining the historicity of the Tacitus account and its supposed witness to Jesus is an important one, but it could have been much more conclusive and also more supportive to Jesus as myth. The Roman church needs reminding, too. It is used in the Roman Office of Readings for the liturgical memorial of the First Martyrs of the Church of Rome on June 30. The Church of St. Clement is one of the most fascinating places in Rome. Through jealousy women were made to appear as Danaids and Dircae, suffering terrible and unholy indignities; they finished the race of faith unshaken and received a noble reward, weak in the body though they were. Lactantius wrote accounts of the wrongful persecutions of Christians by Roman rulers yet he omits any mention of a fire in the time of Nero. Claud. Cassius Dio(ca 155-235 C.E.) Owing to envy, Paul also obtained the reward of patient endurance, after being seven times thrown into captivity, compelled to flee, and stoned. I realized that I hadnt added your blog to our blogroll. They thought this might serve their purpose. ", "By the way, my thanks to Neil for an ongoing superb job of exposing Jims review for what it is: a farcical and none too effective exercise in mythicism assassination, nothing to do with rational, let alone unbiased, scholarship. DID TACITUS WRITE OF A NERONIAN PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS? Abstract The purpose of the current article is to address a question to which scholars devoted considerable thought: the identity of the Christian women whom Clement of Rome called Danads and Dircae in his First Epistle to the Corinthians. In Jewish apocalyptic mythology Nero was depicted as a bestial figure, no doubt because the war that ended with the destruction of the Temple was commenced under his reign. The infants were exposed, but a neatherd found and reared them, and he called the one Zethos (Zethus) and the other Amphion . Around the turn of the century, then, an identifiable group, disruptive to the social order and known as Christians, were coming to the notice of the ruling classes. Given the surprisingly widespread acceptance of the great significance ofthis axial event in Christian history, the thinness of the evidence on all aspects of it is quite striking. Shaw accepts the high likelihood that rumours about who was responsible for the fire were rife. I also have a rough draft of what will be the Rebuilding the Foundations book. And he brings into play the unnamed freedmen referred to by Josephus, Ant. Hyginus' list[5] is partially corrupt and some of the names are nearly illegible. | Contact Us Probably this myth is connected with a ceremony having to do with the worship of waters, and the Danades were water-nymphs. Chapter VI.Continuation. 8:3). One of the plainest examples is the Acts of Peter (probably from the 180s) which tells of Neros persecution of Peter in Rome, but states that he was forced to keep his hands off Peters Christian followers due to a threatening vision from heaven. And given that the penalties imposed upon these Christians in the days of Nero were associated with a mishmash of other legal restrictions and not with the Fire, wecan accept that Suetonius knew nothing of Christians being singled out for dire punishment because of the Fire. Wilson) (Greek rhetorician C2nd to 3rd A.D.) : ", "Neil Godfrey and Tim Widowfield, who both write at Vridar . | Privacy Policy This second group were singled out because others believed they had a general hatred for humankind. Excavations revealed that the medieval Church, built in the 12th century, actually was built on top of a 4th century Church which was in turn built over a house church going back to the first century. Scholars Press. Even if it was for guilty persons who deserved to suffer extreme and exemplary public punishments, there arose a feeling of pity because it was not for the public good but to satisfy one mans savagery that they were being liquidated. Tacitussincerely thought he had, in the late 110s and early 120s, evidence that a new sect known as Christians had been accused of being responsible for starting the fire, and that they were punished by Nero in order to deflect suspicions directed at himself. Online version at the Topos Text Project. The story goes that Antiope was ill-treated by this Dirke, and therefore the children of Antiope put Dirke to death. I dont know if they will print it, because it relates to a secondary subject within the review in question. (I imagine the google search in . To these men who spent their lives in the practice of holiness, there is to be added a great multitude of the elect, who, having through envy endured many indignities and tortures, furnished. - Letter to the Corinthians, ch. Paul says that he went throughout the world preaching that the Gentiles should repent and turn to God, doing works suitable for repentance" (Acts 26:20). They first made a stop in Rhodes, where they founded Lindos town and built a temple to goddess Athena Lindia. The Jews from Jerusalem marveled at the precious gift given to the Gentiles, Cornelius being the first, by saying, "So God has granted repentance to life to the Gentiles as well" (Acts 11:18). I know certain arguments in isolation do seem very persuasive, such as the forgery one. Here is Shaws translation of the passage, beginning at the beginning: A disaster followed. The climax of the story starts here. We all know the problem with this promise. Christians were linked to those who were punished after the Great Fire.. Nero had somehow come to be connected with the Christians; 5-6 "The Martyrdom of St. Paul and Condemnation of St. Peter" by Giovani Caraglio . Hence the work was almost unknown throughout the Middle Ages, and no one was aware of the reference in it to a Roman persecution of the Christians. I think I was the first to present a comprehensive case (587-630) for the whole Neronian persecution as a consequence of the Great Fire, let alone the idea of any Christian responsibility for it, as being a later myth. ", "Vridar is consistently thought-provoking, well-informed, and asking the right questions. The story, however, does not stop here. Christians and Jews by the Fourth Century. It was a crime that both people and gods would punish. In a footnote Holmes explains the reference to Danaids and Dircae: "[I]n ancient mythology the daughters of Danaus were given as prizes to the winners of a race; thus it is likely that this is a reference to Christian women being raped prior to being martyred. ", "Neil, this is actually rather useful. suffered cruel and unholy insults as Danaids and Dircae, safely reached the goal in the race of faith, and received a noble reward, feeble though they were in body. Notice that he says that those whom Nero rounded up were called Christians/Chrestians. The prospect of a Christian interpolation in Tacitus, The Ambiguity of the Serpent: Greek versus Biblical, The Biblical Cain and his Greek Counterparts, Garden of Eden : Mesopotamian Perspectives, http://dspace.nwu.ac.za/handle/10394/14213, Rome Burning and the Christians: A New Study Vridar, https://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=145080#p145080, Book of Revelation Annotated List of Posts, Daniel Gullottas Review of Richard Carriers, Death and Resurrection of the Beloved Son (Levenson), Ending of the Gospel of Mark (16:8) ANNOTATED INDEX, Genre of Gospels, Acts and OT Primary History: INDEX, Historical Methods (with reference to the study of Christian Origins/Historicity of Jesus), Jesus: a Saviour Just Like the Kings and Gods of Egypt and Babylon, Inside the Pentecostal Christians Mind #1, The Garden of Eden [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus-Critias 7a], The Second Creation Story in Genesis [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 6], Sovereign Citizens, ISIS and Moonies the common thread that binds them all, When God Created Humans, then Retired: Genesis 1 as Science [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 5c], The Late Origins of Judaism The Archaeological Evidence, In Six Days: Genesis 1 as Science [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 5b], In the Beginning: Genesis 1 as Science [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 5a], Genesis 1 as Philosophy [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 4], Why Genesis 1-3 is Different from Other Myths [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 3b], Genesis = Science + Myth + Theology [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 3a], Genesis 1 Amazing Unique [Biblical Creation Accounts/Platos Timaeus 2], Charbonnel: Jesus Christ sublime figure de papier, Shawaccepts that Tacitus was a relatively reliable historian not given to outright invention.
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